Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Weakness to strength

I would guess that there are some dads out there, and probably also wives of dads, who suffer greatly with the reality that keeping "Job's contract with his eyes" and not look upon a maiden (or otherwise) is awfully difficult. Take heart, though; reality is that your very weakness is your opportunity to be able to really help them with the issue of modesty. Just be ready to quote:

"Kiddo, I've been struggling with the lust of the eyes for decades now, and reality is that that [insert article of clothing here] draws the eyes right to your [insert body part here] and is going to lead a young man's mind (as if he needed the leading) somewhere else than the contemplation of your sterling conversational abilities and quiet spirit. Just trust me on this one."

8 comments:

W.B. Picklesworth said...

Yeah, backing up the correct principle with some humility can go a long way. But it's important not to forget to teach the principle! I think that happens a lot and then it just becomes permission to do whatever.

pentamom said...

Gino -- the disconnect comes in where things like "chins" and "shins" and "elbows" become things that must not be seen, lest I be perceived as a "sexual object." If the exposure of those parts of the anatomy leads to someone viewing me as a sexual object rather than a wife and mother, I venture to say that the problem is not with the elbows, it is with the viewer.

This is obviously and demonstrably different from the exposure of the sort Bert has in mind.

Gino said...

pentamom:
wether an exposur is inappropriate or not is depending largley upon cultural custom.
bare breasts are not indecent in some cultures.
bare legs are in others.

we cant hold fast and defend our cultural traditions of decency without allowing others the same privilage.
and muslim cultures, which are as varied as christian ones, draw differing lines of distinction.
you will find no burhkas in morocco, no head scarves in bosnia,
and you couldnt tell a chechan women from her russian orthodox counter part. and indonesian women barely cover at all.

that, and rules of modesty vary within cultures based upon social settings: rural dwellers cover more, city dwellers not so much.

its not much different here. they dress differently in Mayberry,USA than in california beach towns.

and it cuts both ways. ever seen a muslim man walking around in a sleeveless t-shirt? not in any arab nation, i'll tell you that.

women just seem to have it harder because men are more easily distracted (we are dogs, yes)

in islam, physical/sexual attractiveness belongs within the home, as the gift from one spouse to another, and not for public display.
and why sales of 'frederick's' type lingerie in muslim cultures exceed, per capita, those in the west. they party up the play time, but they do it privately.

Bike Bubba said...

Regarding the Islamic world; keep in mind that the Scriptures do indeed tell us something about shameful exposure, and it really doesn't have to do with the face, feet, or hands. It has to do with the portions of the torso which are ordinarily covered with a swimsuit. Look up the warnings to Israel about how they would be exposed due to their sin in the books of the prophets.

We can then infer that when attire more or less leads to exposure of those areas--or concentrates attention on them--that we are being immodest. If we look to the Scriptures, it's pretty straightforward to differentiate.

pentamom said...

"and it cuts both ways. ever seen a muslim man walking around in a sleeveless t-shirt? not in any arab nation, i'll tell you that."

But funnily, it doesn't cut both ways where the social pressure of an Arab nation is missing -- e.g., my local Walmart. And I don't think even in Muslim countries, men's hair or the outline of their knees are considered things that, if visible, will lead to a breakdown in society and a devaluation of men as persons.

That we can reason backwards to some defensible theory of modesty that leads to burkas, doesn't mean that the actual basis and the actual practice really is defensible. Bert's right -- what constitutes physical modesty is far more objective than you seem to want to make it. And if a woman's nose makes her into an object, so does a man's. Homosexuality is not absent in Muslim cultures, whatever Mahmoud Ahmedinejad may wish you to believe.

pentamom said...

BTW, I'm not sure what this means:

"we cant hold fast and defend our cultural traditions of decency without allowing others the same privilage."

Well, on the one hand, I'm not suggesting outlawing any kind of covering one wishes to put upon oneself, provided it doesn't create a threat to public safety (of which I can't even think of an example.)

But on the other hand, I feel free to criticize any cultural tradition that I think is rooted in some kind folly or in idolatry (including American ones.) I don't wish to suggest that the Arab/Muslim cultural conception of modesty is some unique, or uniquely bad, facet of Islam, but I do wish to suggest that it's based in erroneous ideas. And any bad idea that becomes widespread, does do its own kind of damage.

So yeah, they have the privilege of having their tradition, and they have the privilege of defending it to me, but I have the privilege of thinking it is wrong to a harmful degree because of its philosophical underpinnings.

imfreenow.blogspot.com said...

Amen, pentamom!

Anonymous said...

Here's where moms can make an impact, and sew for their kids. We don't have to be a "vanishing breed" in our homes as the "keeper of the home." And one important area is clothing our children well.

With our husband's support and encouragement, we can examine ourselves in the area of wearing clothes that bring honor to our Lord and are respectful of those around us; and encourage our daugthers to do the same. We may not fit everyone's standards of modesty perfectly, but we can trust that the Lord will lead us in this, too.

We need our husbands to lead in this area as well as others. I praise the Lord for Bikebubba's leadership here, and hope the same for others.

Mrs. Bike Bubba